Do Aliens exist?

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Brennan
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Re: Do Aliens exist?

Postby Brennan » Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:40 pm

I know that they exist .... I 'm married to one !!!


Great ! me too. How many tentacles does your wife have ?

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Bunny
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Re: Do Aliens exist?

Postby Bunny » Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:03 pm

Brennan wrote:Great ! me too. How many tentacles does your wife have ?


That's not a tentacle! :shock:
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Re: Do Aliens exist?

Postby Dange » Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:38 pm

very good disguise ....... she manipulates telepathically $$$
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Re: Do Aliens exist?

Postby Bubi » Tue Dec 26, 2017 9:20 am

The reason i say this might not be the proper venue for my views, is that mine are likely quite unpopular being grounded in Faith. Let me define terms: faith is believing on things unseen, but knowing they are true. Let me further clarify that faith need not be blind, rather based on both evidence of what is seen and unseen.

Actually there is far more evidence for the existence of Christ than aliens. I suggest reading these books before rejecting the claim outright:

1. The Case for Christ: A Journalist's Personal Investigation of the Evidence for Jesus
ISBN-13: 978-0310209300, ISBN-10: 0310209307

2. The Case for a Creator:
ISBN-13: 978-0310242093, ISBN-10: 0310242096

And before we go down the road of Science vs Faith, as if one automatically trumps the other; keep an open mind as to both have the same author and actually are in agreement. The infinite dimensional Creator who exists outside of and engineered the time-space natural creation with laws. Laws math and science obey. Even the Big Bang and subsequent creation followed laws of thermodynamics. Laws imply a law giver.

Now back to Aliens, even believing on them is an exercise in faith (again believing on things unseen, and knowing them to be true). Before buying into Alien life, one first has to grasp the probability of Carbon based life even occurring on Earth. This goes down the path of a finely tuned universe and the variables and statistics behind the Anthropic Principles.

Stephen Hawking is hardly a man of Faith, but he gets the math behind it and has noted, "The laws of science, as we know them at present, contain many fundamental numbers, like the size of the electric charge of the electron and the ratio of the masses of the proton and the electron. ... The remarkable fact is that the values of these numbers seem to have been very finely adjusted to make possible the development of life."[4]
Stephen Hawking, 1988. A Brief History of Time, Bantam Books, ISBN 0-553-05340-X, p. 7, 125

One can twist the math and logic all they want to argue its statistically impossible to have life on Earth or anywhere out of nothing, or the reverse that given enough time and trillions of stars it would happen.

This kind of argument has gone on for decades by better equipped men than any of us, but at the end of the day... its more contest of faith systems than it is Science vs Faith.

As for me, Christ I know first hand. Aliens, not so much.
Merry Christmas mates. Be good, be wise, be of good cheer.
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Re: Do Aliens exist?

Postby Ginger » Tue Dec 26, 2017 9:53 am

Bubi have you actually met " Christ" ?
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Re: Do Aliens exist?

Postby Broadsword » Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:36 am

It's Christmas, and you are free to enjoy your faith and express it as you wish. I hope you and yours had a lovely and fulfilling day. But misrepresenting the words and beliefs of others is pretty low and should be called out whenever it's seen. The Stephen Hawking quote you give is from chapter 8 of a Brief History of Time, 'The Origin and Fate of the Universe'. Hawking does indeed know the maths, and devotes 32 pages to explaining why the impression of design he describes at the beginning (ie seem to have been finely adjusted) is merely an illusion. The final sentence of the chapter reads 'What place, then, for a creator? '

I'm not saying you have to agree with Hawking of course, but it's utterly disingenuous to quote the question that he raises, then throw out his complex and informative answer and just declare, 'See, Stephen Hawking agrees with me and he's clever'. I'll be nice and assume that rather than taking the quote out of context yourself you actually just read someone misusing it and rehashed it without doing the proper checking. Quote mining is a cheap trick, and if you want to keep the moral high-ground you should distance yourself from those who engage in it, even if it means doing a bit of reading.
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Re: Do Aliens exist?

Postby Onebad » Tue Dec 26, 2017 12:29 pm

Ginger wrote:Bubi have you actually met " Christ" ?


Whether Christ did or did not exist is not questionable as his as much of a historic figure as Ceasar or Douglas Bader. If he indeed was a messiah, that's something you either believe in or not.
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Re: Do Aliens exist?

Postby Broadsword » Tue Dec 26, 2017 1:30 pm

Onebad wrote:Whether Christ did or did not exist is not questionable as his as much of a historic figure as Ceasar or Douglas Bader. If he indeed was a messiah, that's something you either believe in or not.


Hogwash. Christ is so deeply buried into our culture that people find it easy to believe that there is a huge amount of evidence for him, but in fact there is nothing conclusive. There are exactly zero contemporary references to him, then two or three references before 100CE (Josephus mentions him twice in twenty volumes, and both passages are at least somewhat disputed, whilst Tacitus mentions him once in thirty volumes, also disputed by some) and then a bunch of later writings that confirm the existence of Christians but not much else.

Caesar on the other hand is evidenced by statues carved in his own lifetime, coins minted in his own lifetime, a vast array of contemporary historians writing about his life as it happened (Cicero, Sallust, Nepos, Cattulus, Pollio, Virgil, Ovid, etc) or soon after his death (Plutarch, Appian, Seutonius etc), not to mention of course the histories of the Gallic Wars and the Roman civil war written by Caesar himself.

As for Bader, there are RAF records, photographs, very probably a birth and death certificate, and if you're want the personal touch my father-in-law is downstairs and he met the man.

This idea that Jesus is 'as well documented as Caesar' is a laughable claim that only manages to persist because so many people have heard it repeated for so long and from such an early age that it never occurs to them to question it. The more interesting question is whether any of the scant evidence for his existence stands up under scrutiny - personally I'm not convinced, though I certainly think that the myths may have congealed around a real preacher (or combination of a few preachers). But given the amount of outrageous invention that followed on from that (and clearly still persists today), it wouldn't be utterly surprising to find that the whole thing was made up from the start.
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I must go up to the skies again, to the peace of silent flight, To the gull’s way, and the hawk’s way, and the free wings’ delight;
And all I ask is a friendly joke with a laughing fellow rover, And a large beer, and a deep sleep, when the long flight’s over.

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Re: Do Aliens exist?

Postby Sharpe » Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:00 pm

Just tacking this on the end of Broadie's solid argument:

Were any religious texts, that claim the existence of a 'Jesus' / 'Mohamed' type figure, written at the same time or shortly after the time of their prophet's life? From what I can recall from RE the answer is a no. So that raises the question as to whether any religious text has a word of truth in it anywhere.

Onebad wrote:Whether Christ did or did not exist is not questionable as his as much of a historic figure as Ceasar or Douglas Bader.
And that ^ is a load of old arse I'm afraid. As Broadie pointed out there are plenty of indications that Ceasar existed, and we have interviews of Douglas Bader. Any scrap of solid evidence that Christ existed? If he did exist would his clothes and possessions not have been kept as proof that this 'son of god' existed? Would they not also be around for us to see today? We still have Goring's trousers on show at the IWM. For someone as important to the history of man as Christ to have no indications of his existence left behind is a prosperous idea and therefore, in my opinion, cannot be taken as fact.
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Re: Do Aliens exist?

Postby Stig » Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:58 pm

'The historic figure Ceasar'...is it a particular one or any one of them? :lol:


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