Chubby activated.

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Boyezee
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Re: Chubby activated.

Post by Boyezee » Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:10 pm

I have no issue if you or others think I’m barbaric or a wanker or whatever else Wiggy was calling me, in my view you have over stepped the line on a regular basis recently and I called you out on it, maybe I shouldn’t have openly shared my opinion of you but I did because you weren’t heeding any of the politer requests to leave it alone so I told you straight.

You can play the ‘I respect your decision’ card and pretend to be all innocent about not trying to influence things but I know you knew what you were doing, you have embarked on a persistent anti-BoX campaign without taking the time to consider any of its positive items and you did not respect any previous requests to stop ramming it down our throat every chance you got.

Which funnily enough is behaviour I find really disappointing
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Shadepiece
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Re: Chubby activated.

Post by Shadepiece » Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:50 pm

The really sad part is that although the issues that Varanc points out are present in the sim, they rarely affect the outcome of a fight, or last long enough to really bother me or the vast majority of the people it's happened to. It's an internet based game, and like all other internet based games it has some desynch issues from time to time.

Any way you cut it down, it's new, it has more stuff to do, and a lot of people are playing and enjoying it. It makes the most sense at this particular point in time to move to a healthy platform.

Onebad
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Re: Chubby activated.

Post by Onebad » Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:53 pm

Glad to see that neither Kildren or I are the biggest clowns around.

Wozaworld
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Re: Chubby activated.

Post by Wozaworld » Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:35 am

Slightly VR biased opinion here... but BoX with VR stands way way way above any true “flight” experience I have had since the birth of computer games/sims.

During our recent mission trials I have not had one single problem or encountered anything from the game that has hindered or had me question the sim - I have only had a much more realistic experience of flight, speed and combat. I don’t think anyone in the mission tests had de-sync problems or noses pointing at others before or whatever - in fact I think we all had a great time, and were impressed by many things and at the same time high lighted negligible weaknesses in the platform.

All in all - we had a lot of fun. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again... the MOST important factor is ACG, the numbers, organisation, collaboration and characters we fly with and against.

That is what gets me logging in day after day - not any particular platform. It’s you, you and you.
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Dickie
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Re: Chubby activated.

Post by Dickie » Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:00 pm

Vranac it wasn't through the back door, we aren't moving because of a TFS relationship, we are moving because I said this bof & bob (4th) were the last. The bit about the DMs don't get me started, and I think you're biased accepting and ignoring cod problems but highlighting or exaggerating box things. Sorry that feel this way and only want to fuck the same bird, we want you to come with ACG and accept the polygamy. :fap:

Kai Lae
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Re: Chubby activated.

Post by Kai Lae » Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:04 pm

I never got around to answering Vranac's post because I figured that using my time to play the new update was better than writing posts, but I had a thought so I figured I should put it down. No Vranac I did not go into the game and try to shoot off my own tail, because I have had this done to me many, many times (including last monday for sure as I remember) and what happens is your plane falls out of the sky and you have to bail out. There is therefore no constructive purpose to going to test this when I already know the result.

As for the vids showing effectively nonexistent control surfaces doing things, there's no official explanation but from my experience this is what I believe. First, the visual damage model of CLoD is noticeably superior than BoX, and the overall damage model is also probably slightly superior. I'll explain. When you take a hit in clod, it shows exactly where you were hit and by what. For instance, last major test a 20mm round hit me in the wingtip and when I looked left you could see a large 20mm hole in my wingtip. I don't think that BoX works like that at all from my experience. What I think it shows is visual damage states. When a part gets hit some, it shows a few holes using a damage sprite. Get hit more and more holes, get hit more and there are gaps in the metal, etc. These as I said I think are not showing the exact damage taken and where but are displaying the relative amount overall of damage taken. I was jumped yesterday for example by a La5FN in a 109G6, and even though the La5 is armed with 2 ShVaK 20mm cannons, when I looked at the damage in my wing all I saw was a bunch of tiny machine gun holes. This is obviously not showing me something completely accurate. By the way I landed this plane so the complaint that 20mm instakills a aircraft is false, and anyone who's flown it for a while would tell you that having seen 20mm hits on planes and they keep flying along.

Second CLoD's overall damage model is probably slightly superior. CLoD models many tiny systems and the fact that they can be hit. Things like hydraulic pumps, gyros etc. BoX does not I think model all of these things in some cases; it's level of detail tracking isn't quite as high. You do however get damaged control surfaces being able to fail under stress such as G loading so you get that which CLoD doesn't have. Circling back to your comment, the video that shows a rudder moving a plane when it has no fabric on it is therefore most likely showing that something shot the piss out of it and it is very damaged. However, it could still, no matter what it shows, have control surface on it remaining and be able to control the aircraft. It might fall off though if someone sneezed on it.

This doesn't mean that there aren't other issues with it besides the graphics. Players with many hours in it like myself will tell you that the tail surfaces of a 109 blow off simultaneously - in other words both horizontal stabs and the vertical stab - when the plane gets hit with suspicious regularity, and that both the I-16 and IL-2 seem to have their vertical stab come off oddly often. So no it's not perfect and no one claims that. However if you want that fixed - or, saying the 109 has the wrong climb rate - you'd need to post in the FM section of the forums and bring documentation that proves your point. Complaining about it here doesn't do anything actually constructive.

I've got 918 hours in BoX and so I think by now I'm much more qualified to say how it works than some people are, and I don't need to look at videos to know either. Why don't I think the DM differences and the "nose not pointed at you" thing makes the product garbage? Because overall they just don't matter. It'd be great if the DM things that CLoD has worked in BoX, but overall, they don't alter the way the game is played much, or at all. The nose not pointed at you happens - I've seen it - but it happens so infrequently that again, it doesn't change anything overall (though it's maddening when it does happen).

What Vranac is doing is very similar to what happened in cliffs recently. I don't remember the name of the dude, but someone figured out that some RAF planes have indestructible props in collisons. Therefore, cliffs is garbage and fix this right now. TF comes back and says thanks for figuring that out, but we won't have time to do that in 4.5, it'll have to wait for 5.0. 4.5 comes out, first thing this guy does is headon ram a bomber and destroy it with the indestructible prop, make a video about it, post it and say cliffs is garbage because of that.

Only thing is that in all the campaign missions I've flown, I've never seen this be a problem in one. Ever. Can't recall ever seeing it while on someplace like Leadfarm either. So how important is it? Not at all. Just like the stuff Vranac is going on about, but like this other guy, they both have a issue and won't stop until the offending parties have gone away. Here's a question for you Vranac:

Is there anything, anything at all, that would make you change your mind about BoX?
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Azref
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Re: Chubby activated.

Post by Azref » Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:46 pm

Onebad wrote:Glad to see that neither Kildren or I are the biggest clowns around.
Subject to Change, ask about the new ACG clown rankings available from your nearest admin/ group leader. :D
Ask about ACG contraband, I can get what you need.

Vranac
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Re: Chubby activated.

Post by Vranac » Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:12 pm

Kai Lae wrote:I never got around to answering Vranac's post because I figured that using my time to play the new update was better than writing posts, but I had a thought so I figured I should put it down. No Vranac I did not go into the game and try to shoot off my own tail, because I have had this done to me many, many times (including last monday for sure as I remember) and what happens is your plane falls out of the sky and you have to bail out. There is therefore no constructive purpose to going to test this when I already know the result.
Kai lae, you had the time to write that wall of text but didn't have it to simply try it by yourself and prove me wrong. It would not take more than five minutes. Strange.

i wasn't talking about tail, I was talking about a vertical stabilizer, one completely useless, decorative part of a plane :)

"It's a kind of magic..." should be playing in the background...





Man, I was not talking about positions of visualization, that was not the point. The point is there is no effect at all when you have damaged controls. Nothing, zero effect on FM.
If you were reading my posts, which I doubt you'd, be able to read the Petrovich's post about visualization of DM that I deliberately translated. What is drawn damaged, it's damaged and according to him a plane is flying according to that. And that's a lie. Re-read my earlier post please.

"and be able to control the aircraft."

Not 'be able', there is no difference at all.

"however get damaged control surfaces being able to fail under stress such as G loading so you get that which CLoD doesn't have.

Wrong again.



"I've got 918 hours in BoX and so I think by now I'm much more qualified to say how it works than some people are, and I don't need to look at videos to know either. Why don't I think the DM differences and the "nose not pointed at you" thing makes the product garbage? Because overall they just don't matter."

So, it's there? Kai lae, sorry to say but your statement is ridiculous. That is essential, not only in a flight sim but in every action mp game. You can't fight an opponent with a delay of one second. That is pointless, you're fighting ghosts, you don't see what your opponent is doing. People are buying monitors with low input delay and that's about tens of milliseconds difference, not about one second.

"What Vranac is doing is very similar to what happened in cliffs recently. I don't remember the name of the dude, ..."

This is getting funny. That guy ( he is a nice guy by the way), Lobo, was talking about crashes, that you know, in a flight sim you're trying to avoid by any means. I'm talking about essential things that make a flight sim, FM, DM and netcode.

"Is there anything, anything at all, that would make you change your mind about BoX?"

If they would fix these things that I'm talking about I would be tempted to try it at least. But they didn't in five years and I'm pretty sure that they won't fix that even after the Bodenplatte. They won't touch it until people are buying their game.

And you must think that some haters are making these videos. Most of them have all the sequels and they're running the most popular server.
And hear this when I'm into it. I thought they made some videos with real planes to show Petrovich where is he wrong in FM, some basic stuff, flaps down, full rudder, etc...
No, they have called the dev team to visit on an aerodrome and to try it on a real aeroplane and they accepted. Petrovich and Han went there. The flights were done on the Socata. On a friendly meeting the devs saw in the real life what they have been discussing on the forums and agreed with the most of the things.
But... when they came back they made a report on the official forum in which they wrote that they tested everything and have proven that everything is fine in their 'sim'.
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Boyezee
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Re: Chubby activated.

Post by Boyezee » Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:21 pm

There is an effect when you have damaged controls on FM, had it myself a number of times today when flying, things like aircraft tilting to one side and unbalanced in normal flight, just now my controls locked up after a burst from an enemy fighter and I had to bail out.

EDIT Fuck, fell for it and responded...
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Von Archie
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Re: Chubby activated.

Post by Von Archie » Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:40 am

Boyezee wrote:

EDIT Fuck, fell for it and responded...
Ignore function Boyezee, ignore function...
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