MODERN CONFLICT Feedback thread-November

Insurgency and borderless global conflict
Redeye
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Re: MODERN CONFLICT Feedback thread-November

Postby Redeye » Tue Nov 25, 2014 7:09 pm

In no particular order- here is a little rant:

Well, the thing is- it has nothing to do with the outcome, as in winning/losing, who is better etc.

It is just that with so few players and such a dense area, the attition for both sides was so high. I guess I'd want my cake and eat it too, but I might have to choose.


I guess the point is, what I would like to set up next time is;
1. A good chance for all to fly and have fun (for a while before dying a horrible death)
2. Have a reasonable chance to survive (lol?)

Tricky part is, as you say Zero, in war, it is never fair. And as the campaign is set up (which we are halfway through), the Russians are on the defensive. But I would not feel all good about setting Flanker pilots in missions as cannon fodder, outnumbered 5 to 1. You guys need it to be meanigful too... For now, the advantage in numbers has basically been countered by the fact that the amount of new pilots is so high, that we have no real coordination or tactics, because we simply do not have the skill for it yet. Half of us mapped their keys within hours of the mission:D

We all died, more or less, and most of us killed something, more or less:D

And yes- we could all get a hell of a lot better tactics, and in time, we will, all of us:)

Indeed- as the mission are PVE made PVP, the bases might be to close indeed. I can sort that one out. But if more and more people
join in, (which they seem to do and which is great) this should be rebuilt as PVP missions with greater ranges and less density etc.

I consider myself an initiator for getting people in enjoying modern conflict together in the ACG framework, and as I have had some 15+ pilots in the group, I feel that that mission have been successful and a fine platform to explore further.

However, if this is snowballing, we need more players in the field in terms of mission building etc. I am sure many of you guys make better missions than me anyways, as I am just tweaking existing single player missions for COOP.

We will see where it goes. There will be at least some 4+ missions from my end this time around. Hopefully someone can pay it forward a bit from there.

Keep discussing guys.

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Schmuck
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Re: MODERN CONFLICT Feedback thread-November

Postby Schmuck » Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:11 pm

The first time we were engaged you were flying towards our Waypoint and therefore we were head on, not intentional. The F-15's locked my self up and then locked Zero, I then took that as an attempt to combat us so we dove away and took evasive. From what I can remember In both engagements I believe Zero fired first so we as a whole need to work on our itchy trigger fingers but that's not a bad thing both times he fired he found his target so perhaps I should take tips from him :lol:
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Redeye
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Re: MODERN CONFLICT Feedback thread-November

Postby Redeye » Tue Nov 25, 2014 9:19 pm

It's pretty difficult not to get itchy-triggy when you hear the RWR warning going off and you try to remember where you mapped your "release externals" button:D

I'll get busy with next weeks template and send it to you Schmuck!

Zero
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Re: MODERN CONFLICT Feedback thread-November

Postby Zero » Tue Nov 25, 2014 9:57 pm

Again, Su-27 must attack first or it will be in evasive lock. So I got to choose: fire first or evade all enemy rockets.

Still, I got shot two times and in both cases my plane was still flying. Lost 60% of systems but still had 40% of steering and 2 engines working. Was unable to RTB but with more skill it is possible. So being shot down was also fun in my case.

As for respawning/dying.

It depends on mission, I was mission maker for ARMA2 sim group when we could march for 2 hours with no bullets in the air. "Splash" is not a recipe for a good mission, there can be good missions with "splashes" and usually are but it's not a necessity. I sympathize with Redeye because he want's to do some exciting missions for us and so far I enjoyed every minute of it, that is why I want to prolong it and by no means flying without "Lock on" is boring.

We must come up with more detailed RoE (Rules of Engagement) as we don't have comms with HQ.

I would turn off AWACS and do some Recon By Fire. But be advised that Su-27 can sneak up on you and shot you down without even you knowing (It's quite hard tho).

More space for more tactical engagement. That way we have option to cancel attack on both sides and do some tactical counters.

Redeye
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Re: MODERN CONFLICT Feedback thread-November

Postby Redeye » Tue Nov 25, 2014 10:07 pm

Template for next mission is ready for testing:)

I have made it so that testing is possible with one blue and one red pilot (With 3 x AI wingmen each)

Hopefully it will be entertaining, but the Russian has the challenge cut ut for them. It involves responding to a massive NATO air strike with a fighting withdrawal.

Hopefully we can test it in the weekend, this way the Flankers can also have a say in their own flightplan and strategy:)

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Broadsword
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Re: MODERN CONFLICT Feedback thread-November

Postby Broadsword » Tue Nov 25, 2014 11:55 pm

Sorry I've missed the last couple of missions, not terribly well at the moment, but if you still want my feedback then here it is...

I can't deny that man is the most dangerous game, and that the thing that brought me to ACG was wanting to fight against other breathers instead of AI. In the long run I'm sure I'll feel the same about modern sims. However, at the moment I'm still very much a beginner, and I really learn a hell of a lot more from our coop flights than in PvP fights. I'm happy to have some dogfight nights, but I'd like the PvE stuff to still be the mainstay.

When we do have PvP nights I think realistically we have to expect a slugfest. It's nice to have RoE, but when a slip up isn't going to start a real war we're all likely to have more than half an eye on trying to make sure we don't get jumped. Clearly the comrades north of the border feel the same way - despite the occasional odd treatise on how Russian pilots aren't allowed to retreat and so attacking first is their version of being defensive, and the f15s are therefore the trigger-happy aggressors even though the comrades shot first, it's clear that they saw the f15s as a potential threat and felt it was better to shoot first rather than wait to be shot at. Dress it up in whatever language you like, 'it's the Russian way' or 'we have to play to the strengths of our aircraft' etc but it's clear that the thought process is the same that the f15 pilots have, ie 'if I don't shoot him now whilst I have the chance, he'll probably kill me'.

I don't think were good enough yet to be able to use our planes to bully each other and jostle for superior position without actually firing. In the end whatever the RoE, a meat vs meat flight is likely to erupt into horrible violence very quickly. Best to reserve it for dogfight nights with unlimited respawns like a modern version of AX dogfight.

Maybe with enough PvE experience against increasingly difficult odds we'll learn enough confidence to use our planes as something other than blunt instruments, and then we can have truly immersive PvP jousts...
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I must go up to the skies again, to the peace of silent flight, To the gull’s way, and the hawk’s way, and the free wings’ delight;
And all I ask is a friendly joke with a laughing fellow rover, And a large beer, and a deep sleep, when the long flight’s over.

Redeye
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Re: MODERN CONFLICT Feedback thread-November

Postby Redeye » Wed Nov 26, 2014 8:50 am

Well written Broadsword. Thanks for the input.

I suspect that is were we will head over time: Dedicated PVP nights with missions made around that idea, and co-ops on smaller scale for learning the aircraft in a social environment over time.

Fang
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Re: MODERN CONFLICT Feedback thread-November

Postby Fang » Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:51 am

Sorry for my forced a absence this week and I hope to be back in the air soon just waiting on my new SSD drive. As for the structure of missions there are some great views being voiced, personally I am very greatful to Redeye for spending the time to set them up for us, it's a fine balance between enjoyment and evenly balanced scenarios. The original campaign setup against AI seemed to be more emersive and more true to life and the emphasis was more fly the mission but get back in one piece above anything else which is true to life. The PvP is great fun and helps with more trigger time due to the fact you tend to fly more aggressive from the word go rather than sticking to the brief but as already stated it turns more into a slug fest rather than a mission.
So I would say it depends on what you want out of your flying, for me I love the true to life missions even if there is less combat and more flying and observation. The point on flight leads is also a good one, for me I struggle to look after myself at times and feel at fault when it all goes tits up, but it is a learning curve.
In closing Redeye keep up the good work because it's great fun. :D

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Broadsword
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Re: MODERN CONFLICT Feedback thread-November

Postby Broadsword » Wed Nov 26, 2014 7:41 pm

Yes, forgot to say that last night - great work Redeye, and many thanks for making our baby steps in DCS so much fun. The missions are really enjoyable as well as instructive. As for sharing the workload in the future, that only seems fair. I've never designed a mission for DCS, CloD or anything else, but if needed I'm willing to learn if it means you don't have to shoulder all the load as we go along. Three cheers for Redeye and all that :D
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I must go up to the skies again, to the peace of silent flight, To the gull’s way, and the hawk’s way, and the free wings’ delight;
And all I ask is a friendly joke with a laughing fellow rover, And a large beer, and a deep sleep, when the long flight’s over.

Redeye
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Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 2:50 pm
Location: Haugesund, Norway

Re: MODERN CONFLICT Feedback thread-November

Postby Redeye » Wed Nov 26, 2014 7:53 pm

Thanks for the kind words.

Keep in mind though that I am just using you as pawns to realize my own vision of epic sim-nerdiness;)

Speaking of which- I am trying out "Voice attack", a voice recocnition program that can be tought key commands via speech. Just started testing, but it is pretty fun asking your computer for take off clearence and then hear the dude in the tower giving me the green light:) Free for 21 days, but I am interested in finding out if there is a good free one that does the same.

Recommended, but for the love of God don't let people watch you use it:)


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