Operation Barbarossa/Moscow Information Thread (Un-Official)

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Kondor
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Re: Operation Barbarossa/Moscow Information Thread (Un-Official)

Post by Kondor » Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:32 am

Gents,

I believe we would not be able to read genuine Soviet archive documents just because they are seldom published on the web. Access to them is generally granted mainly or even only to historians in proper libraries. However Russian bibliography regarding their aviation during WW2 is astonishing! Many of not-so-legally-made pdf books in Russian are to be found on the internet, or, if one wants to be 100% fair, prices of these books is not that high.
I guess I'm one of those who can translate Russian into human, as my generation is the last one in Poland blessed with mandatory Russian lessons in primary school ;) I'd just need to shake a bit of rust of my linguistic skills, however judging by the looks of how many great books are there, it's going to be worth it.

And Grumpy, it is you who should be a Commissar in our unit. After all you hold the same position even now, when we are on Western Front :D
And it should not be Treble Onesky (I love how you, Westerners, try to emulate eastern languages adding "sky", "ich" or "ov" at the end of words :D), I believe it would be 111 IAP (Istrebitelnyj Aviatsyonnyi Polk / Fighter Aviation Regiment).
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Geordie
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Re: Operation Barbarossa/Moscow Information Thread (Un-Official)

Post by Geordie » Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:53 pm

I have a question when it comes to flying BoX.

I know that we're planing to stay in our current squadrons/staffels which is fantastic however I don't want to be stuck flying a 109 in BoX. Are we going to rotate so we can fly a mix of aircraft? I'm sure a lot of the Luftwaffe guys would want to try out something else other than the 109...
I mean, I had fast motor cars and fast motor bikes, and when I wasn't crashing airplanes, I was crashing motor bikes. It's all part of the game — Sir Harry Broadhurst

Thaine
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Re: Operation Barbarossa/Moscow Information Thread (Un-Official)

Post by Thaine » Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:02 pm

Geordie wrote:I have a question when it comes to flying BoX.

I know that we're planing to stay in our current squadrons/staffels which is fantastic however I don't want to be stuck flying a 109 in BoX. Are we going to rotate so we can fly a mix of aircraft? I'm sure a lot of the Luftwaffe guys would want to try out something else other than the 109...
There's some planning going on with that goal.
http://aircombatgroup.co.uk/forum/viewt ... 04#p130004
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Miki
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Re: Operation Barbarossa/Moscow Information Thread (Un-Official)

Post by Miki » Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:48 pm

Though I've posted this before, but can't find any trace :

IL-2 during BoM

In October 1941, the combat loss rate for Il-2 was about 8.6 sorties before loss.

As such, only a relative handful of Il-2 were available.

The total number on all fronts was only 144, and only 36 were available in the Moscow sector.

In addition, as a result of the evacuation of the factories to the east, deliveries of Il-2 to VVS in November and December had dropped almost to zero.
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Vranac
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Re: Operation Barbarossa/Moscow Information Thread (Un-Official)

Post by Vranac » Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:54 pm

Miki wrote:Though I've posted this before, but can't find any trace :

IL-2 during BoM

In October 1941, the combat loss rate for Il-2 was about 8.6 sorties before loss.

As such, only a relative handful of Il-2 were available.

The total number on all fronts was only 144, and only 36 were available in the Moscow sector.

In addition, as a result of the evacuation of the factories to the east, deliveries of Il-2 to VVS in November and December had dropped almost to zero.
Some 1500 were produced in 1941, couldn't find how many of these after the Barbarossa started.

The aeroplane was originally designed with a gunner but the problems with a new engine forced Ilyushin to remove it.

"On August 23, 1941, for exemplary fulfillment of the Government's instructions on the production of combat aircraft, the plant No. 18 was awarded the Order of Lenin. 100 of its employees were awarded with medals, including the director of the plant Mikhail Shenkman who was awarded the Order of Lenin.

In July bombardment of the plant began, and it became clear that the enterprise could not work in Voronezh, it was necessary to move it to the rear. That's when the entire managerial talent of the factory director manifested itself.
With he first echelons from Kuibyshev were sent not only the families of workers and machine tools, but also to large parts of future attack planes. It's hard to believe, but the first IL-2 was manufactured a month after the plant arrived in the city. And this despite the fact that the machines were located literally under the open sky.

On December 23, 1941 at the factory came a telegram: "Director of the plant Shenkman and his team. You failed our Red Army. You release one IL-2 per day. This is a mockery of the country, over the Red Army. Aircraft IL-2 is needed for the Red Army as air, as bread. Increase the production of IL-2 planes in two, three, five times ... Stalin. "

Stalin's terrible telegram (kept in the Museum of the plant) could lead to a heart attack of any executive, but Matvei Borisovich silently endured the unfair wrath of the leader. In the morning, he gathered the management staff of the plant and together decided how to speed up the production of aircraft. At the same time, the program for increasing output was adopted. The factory switched to an 18-hour working day.
In January, the plant began to produce 7 aircraft per day, in March, 12 times more, and in May the program was completely overfulfilled.
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Guido
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Re: Operation Barbarossa/Moscow Information Thread (Un-Official)

Post by Guido » Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:32 pm

I've just got Bergstrom's other book "Barbarossa: The Air Battle July - December 1941", which is much like his BC / RS Vol 1 and uses many of the same accounts but with a bit better narrative to link them. However, he only mentions units when he has an account linked to it, so it is still far from comprehensive, and rarely mentions operating bases and who was attached to which Soviet army.

Apparently 198 ShAP (IL2) on the Moscow sector was reduced to 1 aircraft by the end of October. A loss rate of 1 aircraft per 8 sorties, or 12%, would achieve that. Bergstrom mentions other Il2 units but its not clear where they were, but I think they were probably off the BoM map (which only cover half the battle area) to the south. But otherwise it seems the Il2s only had a bit part in the area of the BoM map?

Similar story with the P40s - one unit of 20 aircraft destroyed by early '42 out of a rough total of 1000 Soviet aircraft overall.

It would seem the Soviets (in game terms) are going to be stuck with I16s and MiG3s...(plus a few LaGG3s if you have them).

But I wouldn't want to base an ACG campaign on Bergstrom's patchy coverage.

Shadepiece
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Re: Operation Barbarossa/Moscow Information Thread (Un-Official)

Post by Shadepiece » Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:20 pm

@Vranac thank you that was a very interesting read indeed.

@Guido we intend to largely represent the over general presence in the area at the time therefore I think generally we'll see mostly MiG-3s and I-16s for a while. However, I do also think it's important to include aircraft that are not only fun to fly, but fun to meet in the air as well. There might be room for the P-40 even though it wasn't very common. The IL-2 however, will probably be held back for a period of time where it was more prevalent.

Von Archie
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Re: Operation Barbarossa/Moscow Information Thread (Un-Official)

Post by Von Archie » Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:25 pm

Slightly left field but is it worth looking at what the devs have done with the BoM career? I assume they are trying to be accurate, and in the first mission it was a mix of MiG-3's, I-16's and P-40's.
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LuftAsher
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Re: Operation Barbarossa/Moscow Information Thread (Un-Official)

Post by LuftAsher » Sat Mar 24, 2018 2:58 am

So I found a PDF that says the Luftwaffe operated F-15E's in the Moscow sector in '41. Can we make that happen pls?

Vranac
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Re: Operation Barbarossa/Moscow Information Thread (Un-Official)

Post by Vranac » Sat Mar 24, 2018 2:48 pm

This work that Rich and Guido mentioned is good, Isaev (that is a co-author I think) is one of the best Russian historians regarding the war in the air. His work is based on archival material from both sides and deprived of patriotic mumbo jumbo.

Regarding the P-40 maybe this would help you a bit.

"During the Second World War, the P-40 fighters fought practically throughout the Soviet-German front. Little known fact Tomahawks and Kittyhawks with red stars took part in all the decisive battles: the battle for Moscow, Stalingrad, the defense of Leningrad, in the Kuban, on the Kursk arc and further until the liberation of East Prussia. True, everywhere (except the North), their number was relatively small (usually no more than 1-2 regiments for the air army), and therefore they had no decisive impact on the course of the battles.

In total during 1941-44, 247 Tomahawks and 2178 Kittyhawks (P-40E, K, M and N) were received, which takes the plane to the fourth place after the P-39, Hurricane and P-63. The dynamics of admission to the air force and air defense by years is as follows: 1941 - 230 Tomahawks and 15 P-40E; 1942 - 17 Tomahawks and 487 P-40E, E-1, K; 1943 - 939 P-40E-1, K, M, N; 1944 - 446 mainly P-40M and N. Another 291 Kittyhawks entered the Air Force of the Navy.

In the Soviet air force, Kittyhawk was considered an average machine, better than the I-15, I-16 and Hurricane, but worse than P-39, Yak or Lavochkin. Therefore, the history of a typical regiment on the P-40 looked like this. They started the war on the I-15, I-16 or MiG-3; having lost them in battles to the beginning-middle of 1942, received Р-40С; gradually replenished P-40E, K, which replaced the out-of-service machines previously received. Then followed two options: if the regiment did not show much of itself in the battles, then it was transferred to the air defense and received P-40M and N; if a regiment achieved noticeable successes, became a Guards regiment and were rearmed on the P-39, Yak-7, -9 or La-5. This continued until the end of 1943, when the Kittyhawks practically disappeared from the air forces of the Red Army, almost completely moving to the air defense and aviation of the Navy. In May 1945, only one regiment (24 Kittyhawks) was listed in the 1st IA III of the Byelorussian Front, but in the air defense there were 409 Kittyhawks and Tomahawks , 96 in the Air Force of the Black Sea Fleet and about fifty in the Air Force North.

The first shipment of the Tomahawks, which included 20 P-40 early series, was sent from the United States to the USSR in September 1941. It was bought for gold, and not through the Lend-Lease, which was extended to the USSR only on November 7. By that time English Tomahawks had already arrived in Arkhangelsk. On August 31, 7 Tomahawks IIA (RAF numbers from AH965 to AH971) and 17 - IIB models (AK196-198, 242-247, 250, 253, 255-258, 300, 311) have been received with the 'test' convoy PQ-0 "Dervish". These variants differed only in radio equipment and wing weapons: on IIA were installed British HF-stations and Browning machine guns with a caliber of 7.69 mm, IIB had American VHF stations and 7.62 mm Colt-Browning.

At a special airfield with a wooden covering, that was urgently built by the prisoners of the Gulag :D and named "10th kilometer," the fighters, under the supervision of British aircraft engineers, gathered and flew around. With the help of two American flight instructors, Mr. John Alison and Hubert Zemke, a number of Soviet pilots were trained between September 10 and 29, who airlifted the aircraft to the 27th Reserve Aviation Regiment (ZAP).
The reserve air regiments in the Soviet Air Force had a dual function: they were the centers for retraining combat air units and individual crews for new types of aircraft, as well as depots that distributed the same equipment for front-line air units to compensate for losses. So with the Tomahawks, there was reasonable care - despite the acute shortage of fighters, they decided to first study them in the rear.

The 27th ZAP was based at the Kadnikov airfield, which is 140 km from Vologda by the Vologda-Arkhangelsk railroad. It was formed in August 1941 specifically for retraining to Tomahawks and Hurricanes. In 1941-42, it became the main "gateway" through which the Tomahawks entered the air regiments of the Air Force of the Red Army. Here the 126th, 154th, 159th, 964th IAP and dozens of individual crews were trained. On November 2, the regiment was reorganized into a 2-squadron (015/177), and on December 27 there were 15 Tomahawks IIB (АН974, 978, АК172, 197, 243, 247, 250, 258, 321, 327, 342 , 345, 363, 388, AN493), 4 two-seat training fighter Yak-7b and 2 UTI-4. Despite the difficulties that appeared during the winter operation (engine failures, generators and other parts caused a number of accidents), the instructors of the 27th ZAP considered Tomahawk to be quite simple in piloting and quite accessible for mid-level pilots. Due to its high strength, he could withstand the inevitable in the training process, rough landing and even emergency landing on the fuselage, so only 14 planes were written off for 14 months of intensive operation (AN974, AK316, 196, 243, 321).

The first in the 27th ZAP for re-training arrived the 126th IAP, on September 15, 1941, which was commanded by Major V. Naidenko, one of the most experienced pilots of the Air Force of the Red Army, who managed to fight in Spain, on Khalkhin-Gol and in Finland. This regiment fought from June 22 on the I-16 and MiG-3, having received a good combat experience. Two pilots, Ridnyi and Kamenshikov, by Decree of 09.08.41, were awarded the title of Hero of the Soviet Union (hereinafter referred to as the HSS).

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Maj. Naidenko is briefing his pilots, winter 1941



Mastering of the American aircraft was hampered by the lack of technical descriptions and instructions in Russian. Pilots and technicians had to translate them with a dictionary in the evenings, after working at the airport. Tomahawk turned out to be easy to learn and from October 1 the regiment set to training flights, but two days later they had to immediately move to the front. The 126th IAP, consisting of two squadrons (20 aircraft), flew to Chkalovskaya airfield and began fighting for the defense of Moscow. From October 25, 1941 to April 25, 1942, as part of the 6th air defense corps, the regiment carried out 666 sorties to cover the forces of the Kalinin and Western fronts, and also 319 to defend Moscow. On the combat account of the unit were recorded 29 enemy aircraft. Their losses were 4 planes and 2 pilots. With the greatest intensity, the regiment fought during the first month of stay near Moscow, having made 685 sorties and achieved 17 victories. Then came a continuous accident: Tomahawks were completely unadapted for the Russian winter. From the frosts that reached -38 ° C, pneumatic wheels cracked, the accumulators were discharged, the oil, the slurry and the antifreeze froze, which caused bursts of radiators (38 cases), for the soldering of which they had to confiscate all the silver spoons in the neighboring villages. Often there were disruptions of electric generators and wedging of engines.
To eliminate this flurry of defects, engineering and technical staff of the regiment got the help of specialists from the Air Force Research Institute. The generators and wheels were replaced by Soviet ones; The hydraulic, oil and cooling systems were equipped with special cranes, with which the fluids were completely drained for the night, and other modifications were made. But when they learned how to deal with defects, most of the Tomahawks had already lost their combat capability, not only spare parts and new engines, which were not sent at all (!), but even ... cartridges for the English and American machine guns! By mid-January 1942, only 9 aircraft could have flown into the air. It is interesting that one of the Tomahawks, thanks to the skillful technician A. Lunev, has fulfilled by the time 90 sorties without any accidents! In January, the regiment was able to perform 198 sorties (334 flying hours), conducted 11 air battles in which 5 Bf 109, 1 Ju 88 and 1 He 111 were shot down. Here the statistics reveal an unexpected fact, it turns out the Tomahawks quite successfully fought with Messerschmitts! This was confirmed by the reports of the pilots on the circumstances of the battles. For example, on January 18, a couple of Lts S.V. Levin and I. Levsha fought with seven Bf 109s, knocking down two of them, and safely returned to their base. Zveno (3 aircraft) of Lt. Lozovoy also avoided losses, on January 22 in a battle with 13 enemy planes shot down 2 Bf 109E. In total, 2 Tomahawks were lost in January, and only one of them was shot down by a Messerschmitt, the second was on account of German antiaircraft gunners.

And yet, mainly losses were due to failures of the material part. Especially often brought the engines. As a rule, pilots managed to land a plane with an idle engine, but sometimes luck turned away from them. So, on February 17, 1942, as a result of the engine failure during take off, one of the best pilots of the regiment, Lt. S.G. Ridny crashed (Tomahawk AK325).

Despite the abundance of accidents, the overall impression of the pilots of the 126th IAP about the aircraft turned out to be good. The Tomahawk was exactly what was lacking domestic fighters. If the creators of Soviet technology achieved first of all the high speed and maneuverability of their planes, while the remaining qualities were considered secondary, the P-40 developers paid special attention to such "trifles" as powerful weapons (a second of volley of 2 large calibers and 4 of the rifle caliber was 1.5 times larger than even for the MiG-3), protection (38 mm frontal armored glass), stable radio communication, a good view from the pilot's cockpit, a cabin with very clear glasses and a reliable emergency discharge, comfort in a spacious cabin a large (up to 1100 km) flight range. In addition, the highly-rated airframe of the P-40 often allowed pilots to stay unharmed during emergency landing. In the hands of experienced air fighters, the airplane turned out to be a formidable weapon, although it had insufficient speed and maneuverability, conceding in this even a Me 109E, and the Yaks and LaGGs. Disadvantages of the machine were compensated by the good coordination of the zvenos and group tactics, which provided for the separation in height. Therefore, the majority of victories in the 126th IAP was a group one, on the account of S. Ridnogo (AN965) was 9 personally downed plus 17 in the group, V.G. Kamenshchikova - 7 + 10, V.M. Naidenko is 5 + 11. The aces, who won 5 or more victories, were 12 pilots. 31 pilot was awarded orders and medals for distinctions in the battle of Moscow."



May be continued...
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