TFS sales model discussion

[Dickie]

I thought I'd open a thread here where potential sales models can be discussed openly, and maybe some insight into what CUSTOMERS would like or be willing to follow will come through.

You can of course make bold statements about not wanting to pay a bean or pay bugger all or you aren't buying but.....really?!! They aren't doing this for free, how does it compare to other similar types of work? If the revenue isn't good then the project is dead in the water. Remember this isn't Call of Duty, or FIFA, there aren't 100 million players globally to support it. If the revenue is not there then 1C could kill it again. The TFS guys are us, they are pilots and fans, and whislt we may not all get along we do all have the same goal.

Also, put things into perspective. Per hour Cliffs is cheap as chips. I've spent way more on my PC and hardware than the software itself, even more on running this forum and our servers. Then there are outside interests, my own golf club membership is over £700 per year, I have guitars I've paid that for, we all spend more at local airshows than on Cliffs, anyone into motorsports will spend way way more than all of this - so this is VERY CHEAP as it is.

I'll put up a poll for general interest but I think posting your point of view on payment and any ideas you have, I hope that TFS will notice what their customers are saying.

The way I would go is for TFS to concentrate maximum efforts on releasing either individual aircraft or packs, in advance of TF5 It is obvious that TF5 is a bloody long way off, we haven't had TF4.5 yet and that will have some lovely features but is missing any new types useful to expand the sim. We can do nothing in a Tiger Moth with bombs, and there isn't a lot is mileage in the Beaufighter for campaign life.

DLC Chargeable 1941 WTO (non-tropical) fighters. Spitfire Va & Vb, Hurricane IIa & IIb, Bf109 F1/2/4
1. Early revenue for TFS. More revenue for 1C = more support
2. Revenue for types that would otherwise be given away for free in TF5 desert
3. Breathe life into stagnant, shrinking community as new types can extend the BOB into the 1941 Rhubarb, Rodeo and Circus missions into France. Awakening for dogfight servers with new types (for those who purchase)
4. Players who have put Cliffs down will come back. Current players less likely to leave.
5. Provide breathing space for TFS to continue development of TF5. The community is hostile to the waiting since it has been a long time. An early release of types not useful to TF5 Desert will minimise the "Are we there yet?" complaints and (let's be realistic) general bitterness and toxicity toward TFS by more vocal customers.
6. Make real use of non-trop fighters which are unsuitable for the TF5 Desert update. They should never be added to an historical mission since they were not used without sand/dust filters, their home is the WTO Channel map.
7. Sell all aeroplanes of an era/battle/theatre at once. Individual sales may mean less revenue as customers only buy a single type that they fly. Later on, special releases (eg Fw190), would be major individual sellers.

DLC Chargeable Wellington (or "Bomber pack" or "Allied Bombers" or whatever)
Same as above but for ground pounders. This again is going to be given for free but there are plenty of folk who would pay good money for it.

CAUTION See point 7. You have to strike a balance of need. Bomber pilots may pay £/$20 for a Wellington only but not pay for a fighter pack, but if you put the Wellington into a fighter pack you could charge more and everyone will pay anyway. I would actually do just that, the pilots will bite the bullet to get their favourite type. DLC would sell 180 copies from ACG straight off the bat, guaranteed.

The downsides of early DLC is that you would need to build into the codebase a licencing mechanism to restrict types, and other players who have not purchased will still see the type as normal, they just cannot fly it. You also have to streamline your project to target particular releases. If all the fighters are ready but a bomber is months off then you may need to adjust.

Let's hear it then, enjoy!

[Bonkin]

Good post. Can you explain a couple of things please?

1. What is IRO?
2. What is a grinding model?

Cheers.

[Dickie]

IRO is "In region of"

Grinding is the act of having to play X number of hours on worse/basic types to build up enough 'XP' or points to unlock better types. They tried it in BoS but the community went apeshit.

lol despite my second paragraph we still have a number of guys who will wait forever to pay a minimum. You tight arsed pricks

[StG77_CountZero]

I select WTO 1941 package, but only if all 4.5 players that also dont have that DLC can play together with players who do have it on online servers, and shoot at new AI airplanes offline like BoX alowes.
In 1941 there was still Spit II and E4s flying, so for servers it should not be problem to have thouse airplanes also available on their channal maps with DLC mkV or F4s airplanes.
And then guys who didnt pay for DLC can see how more powerfule new airplanes are first hand, and guys who have that DLC can have more players to shoot down, Win Win

price should be as low as posible, its 5-6 years old game, no one exept small group of fans will buy it for high prices and that will lead to sure failure. People who belive it should be high priced can always buy more copys if they belive price is to low and wont to suport TFS. But if you put to high price on it, people who belive its to high priced will just not buy it, so both sides lose if you price it to high and no more TFS patches for guys who are able to pay 1000$ per plane if they wont, their elitist thinking will be dooom of them 10-20$ for that 1941 DLC is max i would think regular players who dont play this game or like it, will pay for it, everything abow that is fantasy for old game and will lead to no more patches as not many new players would buy it, and few 1000s of existing players cant make it profitable all alone.

[Boyezee]

DLC packs for me

[Thaine]

DLC pack for me. Price can be up to 60 bucks with that. Single aircraft would also be possible, for less money though. The important part. Release as soon as possible for TF and don't wait to have everything ready and finished for TF5. That's to long a wait and might never really come.

Additional note on pricing. I'm willing to pay a bit extra to cover for the past development. So far it was always via Donations to ATAG, but I don't do that, since I have no way to interact on the ATAG forums. Plus I don't know where the money is going. ATAG or TF?

[Kildren]

None the game wasnt worth the 50 to 70 bucks i paid for it when i brought it and its still aint worth shit im sure as hell not going to invest money into a sim that is dead + where everything is broken (also the game now sells for 5 bucks ) people can say team fusion all they want but team fusion are poorly run as it is + a mod team/now recognised developer i guess who cant set a deadline and work to it are just bad they should have honestly let the game die far better sims out their and or better people out their to mod the game 1c should have never given them the source code

edit: cliffs has at most 80 players a week? so if we charge 40 bucks for dlc thats like $3,200 in the end the updates will be just as slow and the releases will be just as slow and honestly wont help anything

+ the only people keeping this game alive are the ughhhghhh HURRICANE SPITFIRE HURRR DURRR pilots

[LuftAsher]

None the game wasnt worth the 50 to 70 bucks i paid for it when i brought it and its still aint worth shit im sure as hell not going to invest money into a sim that is dead + where everything is broken (also the game now sells for 5 bucks ) people can say team fusion all they want but team fusion are poorly run as it is + a mod team/now recognised developer i guess who cant set a deadline and work to it are just bad they should have honestly let the game die far better sims out their and or better people out their to mod the game 1c should have never given them the source code

[Flyby]

I don't think it worth anyone's time to go cheap on this project. not now. I own several combat flight sims and I've bought DLC planes for them in support of the genre. TBH, Cliffs takes up nearly all my sim time. I feel a part of the Cliffs community though having used my sim time with the ACG. When I think of the air war through the advancing war years I think of the European theater and the Pacific theater, and I think of Team Fusion as the best way to bring the European air war (content) forward. I hope it has the same vision, but I will rely on the ACG leadership to help, where possible, guide TF towards that goal. Frankly the Med\Desert air war can wait, imo. My expectation therefore is Team Fusion will do historical justice to the early years of the European air war. 1c is interested in doing the pacific air war. I think both of these will be of greater interest than a vision-less Normandy map. TF\1c would thus have my support.
Finally i will say I have concern that TF not try to spread too wide a net initially. ACG should try to influence a\c types per it's own campaign interests, or at least state what it's campaign interests are (and recommend which a\c will best fit the ACG vision).
Flyby out

[Coopes]

Rather than devoting loads of weeks/months on pointless projecs like an tiger moth with guns, or a beaufighter, it would be nice if they addressed glaring issues within the sim. For example the constant speed propeller not being moddelled correctly.