Patch test thoughts?

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Dickie
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Patch test thoughts?

Post by Dickie » Sun Mar 17, 2013 1:01 am

Bliss asked me to send any findings on the patch testing by PM to TF guys, such as Salmo, Robo, Buzsaw, LizLemon etc etc If you feel so inclined please do the same, both good and bad.

Vranac
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Re: Patch test thoughts?

Post by Vranac » Sun Mar 17, 2013 1:36 am

Nothing concrete because it was first try )

But Merlin souds like this in cockpit ( hifi mics in cockpit there)

http://www.audiosparx.com/sa/summary/pl ... iid.344957

Not like the sowing machine they gave us :D
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Re: Patch test thoughts?

Post by Gromic » Sun Mar 17, 2013 2:46 am

I figured my issue with the connection problems. I have numerous network cards installed and the modded game didn't know which one to send requests out of (even though routing states which one to use for 0.0.0.0). Deactivating all the other cards fixed the issue for me and had a bit of time for testing.

The sounds in cockpit are something to get used to but after a while I'm actually liking it. Audio feedback does feel like your flying a high performance fighter, especially when cutting the throttle and powering up again. Took the IIa to 36k at 130 mph indicated and had to use about 15% nose up pitch to stay level. I wouldn't feel comfortable fighting at that altitude though. Any turns or maneuvering will cut speed fast and then you drop like the preverbial rock.

I really like the clouds at different altitudes. Although a slight FPS loss was subjectively noticed when flying through multiple layers of clouds, it wasn't bad enough to not be able to fight. And, us reds no longer get heavy icing when going through the clouds.

High altitude contrails are also greatly appreciated and add much immersion.

As to the FM's, I did notice that I can throw the spit around more without stalling. That's about the only thing I can definately say. Further testing should yield more detailed changes once I get the chance.

All in all its done very well. Thumbs up for the first mod from TF.

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Gruber
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Re: Patch test thoughts?

Post by Gruber » Sun Mar 17, 2013 3:54 am

Hard to comment on FM's but I did a spin test and put the 109 in a pretty nasty spin from 5.5k down to 500m. I thought that was supposed to be corrected. Pilots notes are needed before real resting can commence.

Visually things seemed much sharper. The clouds can be quite hard on my FPS and the reflection on other a/c is extremely bright. Most a/c appear white a distance and when they pass look like they are shooting flares.

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Re: Patch test thoughts?

Post by Eicken » Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:48 am

From a 110 perspective things seem to be in order, but without further extensive testing from myself and the rest of 9./ZG26, I can't make to big of a judgement thus far, but as I said, things do seem to be much better for the Bf 110.

Overall in game, like Gruber said, textures looked sharper, the clouds on my end had little or no impact what so ever, and also like Gruber said, the reflections on aircraft are quite crazy. Also, from a low/mid ranging machine my fps jumped and stayed smooth and steady over cities, where as before over a city like Calais I would drop from around 35 - 50fps, down to 10 - 15fps, now flying with this new patch I am am at a steady fps of around 30 - 35fps flying over built up areas.

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Re: Patch test thoughts?

Post by Bounder » Sun Mar 17, 2013 6:14 am

Noticed something with the Spitfire cockpits... I'm sure the chaps at Team Fusion are aware, but just in case it's been overlooked, I noticed the following:

- the Spit 2a seems to have the vanilla Spitfire cockpit (common to all Spitfires in the official release)
- the Spit 1a (both 87 & 100 Oct. variants) have a modded cockpit which includes the missing reserve fuel tank (not functional at this point). Also there is a grey circle in the top left hand side of the cockpit that looks suspiciously like a missing gauge...
- the Spit 1 (both 87 & 100 Oct. variants) have the same cockpits as the 1a but with the missing gauge present - the landing flap indicator. Both the reserve fuel tank gauge and flap indicator are non-functional currently (I'm guessing this may be fixed in a later patch).

I can post photos if necessary

At present you can see an evolution of cockpit modding going from the vanilla Spitfire cockpit still present on the 2a, to the half modded 1a and finally to the more fully modded cockpit found on the Spit 1. I just wanted to point this out as I assume the Spits should all have the same fully modded cockpit for the patch release... namely the Spit 1?
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Robo
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Re: Patch test thoughts?

Post by Robo » Sun Mar 17, 2013 12:01 pm

Thanks for the reports, they are appreciated. All in all it looks the testing went OK, there were no showstoppers so it's safe to say the patch is due very soon.

I will post your comments from here in the appropriate TF thread (Salmo already posted yours Osprey, cheers for that!). Some of the issues were known already and already reported, (mainly overheating and other FM details), but it was made clear these are unfortunately based on compromises and on what is possible to fix without breaking something else. FMs and overheating modeling were tested by Buzzsaw and IvanK and they used a specific methodic to achieve what they think was a reasonable overheating algorithms for all planes, it will make more sense with the readme (which is still pending) so this is probably not the final version, but you get an idea about what has been done and how:

ATMOSPHEREAll maps now start at Standard ISA conditions 1013mb/760mm/15C
Propeller icing removed so cloud flight possible
Default Wind now zero. (previously a hidden wind was present).

Altitude (M) V Temp (C)
0............. 15C
1000......... 8.49
2000......... 2.01
3000......... 4.47
4000......... 11.0
5000........ -17.58
6000....... -24.18
7000...... -30.75
8000....... -37.21
9000....... -43.5
10000...... -49.35

OVERHEAT ROUTINESBasically the Cooling capability is defined by being able to run for 5 minutes at the 5 min rating at Full throttle Height (FTH) with Rads Fully open at Climb IAS. This represents the worst possible scenario of max engine heat output with minimum cooling due lower mass flow (Density and climb IAS). Increased altitude does provide some beneficial cooling but the effects of lower mass follow dominates. In the end the rationale is if the system can achieve the 5Min Rating in this scenario it will handle most other (less limiting) scenarios such as high speed Vmax runs (Though at FTH this is only just at any other altitude no issues) or sustained operation at lower levels with lower RAD settings. You should be able to push things a little harder in the lower altitudes than previously. in addition we have also utilised some additional tweeks to alter the temperature rise profile. This results in much better and consistent rise of coolant temperatures. This can now be used as a reliable indication of just how far you can push it. However remember the other limits like time for a given power etc. Stay inside the limits and you will be safe. the single most dominate factors in the TF Overheat module are radiator position and Mass Flow. For a given radiator position mass Flow is the MOST IMPORTANT factor. Mass flow is a function of Altitude and IAS. In very basic terms low Altitude is best, High IAS is best. High Altitude and low IAS is the worst combination. Sustained max turn performance fighting is very demanding cooling wise. On the other hand straight lines and high speed are the least taxing of flight regimes on the cooling system. Intelligent "management" of your cooling system will reward you with the best performance .... get slack with it and you will get burnt or get sub optimal performance for your tardiness.

-------------------------

This is a tricky one, it has been tweaked so many times between the various RCs. I personaly find now all a/c to easy to manage but perhaps it was a bit harsh before, especially on the Merlins. I tested the max speeds and climb times of all fighters and heavy fighters and I was very impressed. Feel free to do more FM testing (yesterday was mainly about online stability on full 3.0 server - lags, stutters, fps loss etc.). But to be honest, I don't think there will be any changes prior to release, but I am sure feedback will be appreciated.

-------------------------

Now to your comments -

Vranac I agree Merlin sound is a bit strange. I will let Slipstream know, basically he had a very good version already in one of the previous RCs but he decided to do further improvements. The .303 sound though is spot on, it sounds a bit strange when you're not used to it but they are very realistic. Engine is not perfect imho, but at least it doesn't sound like Fiat Uno anymore and it's better than stock sounds.

Osprey I reported similar things like you did, I've been told that it's matter of making compromises - the rpm was historically 2600 on max cont rating, in game this represents 2700. It was simply not possible to get the speeds and performance right with rpm as per manual. FTHs and everything else is the same - not perfect, but acceptable and a huge imporvement to the stock situation.

Gromic I agree on most, icing has beed disabled completely, high alt performance and contrails are superb. I tested all Spits in combat last night and had similar report from Kwiatek re Spitfire stall and we already reported it as a possible issue. I am not sure if they changed anything at all, it might be the new confuser.ini file (if you remember Davidreds comment and findings). I will do some more testing with Vranac and maybe with Kwiatek next week and I will ask IvanK and Buzzsaw if they made any changes that could affect Spitfire stall characteristics. I believe it was always a bit stall resistant.

Gruber I will post the FM readme draft in my next post. I confirm some 109s in a very long spin last night, but I don't know what the pilots did in there and what their skill was. In a rather nice fight with Kwiatek, who is a very experienced pilot he had apparently no problem with stall at very high AoA and low speeds. I tested the stall characteristics of all 109s in one of the the previous RCs and I found the recovery was indeed much easier than before. I don't know if there were any changes in v 3.0. I'd say the visual changes are a matter of getting used to them.

Eicken - yes the 110 is much better now, Kodoss and IvanK are the guys to thank, I will post the list of changes later so you can check them out, I believe this is the plane got the most love and quite rightly so! Many people reported better FPS overall.

Bounder - the Spit cockpits were made by bolox, and they reflect the evolution of the early Spits correctly. I agree the new gauges have very little use if they don't work properly. The I has got the early instrument panel layout with 2 fuel gauges, landing flaps indicator. Ia is the later variant with flaps indicator blind out, in fact the instrument was only fitted in the very early Spitfires with flat canopy and early mast etc, but it's not wrong in the Ia. There are more changes (boost gauge, fuel cocks etc) that are yet to be fixed, but overall they were trying to distinguish between the 3 Spits. If you notice the dH Spits have now no prop pitch control in the cockpit. The default (IIa) cockpit is actually incorrect, too, it's basically a mixture of Mk.V and Mk.II features, probably based on some museum restored aircraft. The pits are like this intentionally but you spotted everything that was changed!

I also reported your observation of blurry landscape textures when looking from high alt.

Robo
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Re: Patch test thoughts?

Post by Robo » Sun Mar 17, 2013 12:03 pm

LUFTWAFFE TYPES
FTH may not agree with published figures. OKL/RAE Source docs do not document whether FTH are non RAM or with RAM. In either case these need to be adjusted to get acceptable climb and altitude performance. Vmax figures for 109's come from an average of multiple sources.

FMs are not perfect and never will be. BF109 Spin Departure characteristics are now more gentle. It will still flick but immediate relaxation of back pressure will prevent departure. You will notice More attention to Prop pitch is required. Prop pitch Blade angle rates adjusted to documented figures. Auto works but is not quite as good as manual. You will achieve slightly better performance with manual.

Prop pitch (RC4) on the HEIIIH/P and JU88 were previously a Hybrid Constant Speed systems that were very loose. Historical data indicates that the HEIIIH and P had straight out Variable Pitch (VP) props. These have now become the standard prop for these two aircraft in RC4. Directionally the mechanisation is the same as the BF109 and BF110. The JU88 is a special case. Documents indicate the JU88A1 had a special limiter mode that limited RPM to 2350 and was designed for Take Off and Dive deliveries it was not a conventional Constant Speed system. In other Flight regimes a Manual mode was selected and then the prop system was a standard VP system. At this stage it is not possible to model The Limiter mode accurately. In RC4/RC5/RC6 after extensive rework the JU88 is now also a straight out VP system. There were some issues at altitude with the JU88 and getting the pitch coarse enough to hold 2100RPM at 5000m. This has been addressed in RC6 and should no longer be an issue. Directionally the new JU88 VP, HEIIIH/P VP system is the same as the BF109. the only Odd man out in the German side of the house is the JU87. Its CSP system is directionally the same as the RAF types. Because of these variations it may be better to have dedicated Keybinding Files for the JU87. You can copy Keybindings and save to a specific name and chop and change these even in mid flight. A simple way is to have a Master keybinding file. Then use this as the basis to make alterations required by individual types. Save the new file with the types name.

RECOMMENDED DB601 ENGINE SETTINGS
Each 109 has a slightly different variant of the DB601A (and N in the E4N). The E3 and E4 have High Altitude optimised engines with just a little more basic HP in the E4. The E3B and E4B have Lo altitude optimised engines again with the E4B having just a little more power than the E3B. The E1 has a basic DB601. The E4N is now equipped with DB601N running C3 fuel with higher available RPM limits to the other 109's. In the case of the BF110C4 its a basic DB601 without WEP. The C7 has provision WEP without a 1 min limit but not currently active. All Temp limits have been revised from those in RC1.

In General terms the following are the basic DB601 settings/limitations:

30Min Rating 1.23/2300 for the E1,E3,E3B,E4,E4B,BF1110C4 and BF110C7 (Normal climb)*
30Min Rating for the BF109E4N 1.25/2400

5Min 1.3/2400 for the E1,BF110C-4
5min 1.35/2400 for the BF109E3,E3B,E4,E4B
5Min 1.35/2600 for the BF109E4N
1Min (WEP) 1.45/2400 for the E3,E3B,E4,E4B (1Min Clockwork timer)

30min rating is problematical in AUTO on the E4's as 1.23 wont give you 2300RPM
So use Manual

Stick within the limitations and you should be fine. Exceed the limitations and you may/will run into problems. In general Overheat and Mechanical failure modes were tuned to the 5Min Rating at Full Rads.
Exceed the 5Min rating and you will most likely run into some issue be it Overheat and or mechanical failure. It wont happen exactly on 5 min but some variable time after.

AUTO USE E4
AUTO mode is essentially an Automatic Constant Speed Unit where desired RPM is automatically set as a function of Throttle position not Pilot selection. Below FTH Throttle position will provide a specific ATA. Auto will protect you against Engine over speed.
AUTO prop pitch on the E4's will provide almost identical performance at 5Min and 1min ratings as you can achieve in manual. it is
only tuned (coding limitation at present) to accurately work with full throttle. i.e. Full throttle means target 2400RPM.
At lesser than full throttle settings it will target a lower RPM however this schedule is not in line with the references we have.
In general you are better flying in Manual until combat commences. Select AUTO on entering combat to reduce workload.
There's nothing to stop you switching between AUTO and Manual as required.

In the case of the E4N Auto was retuned to target Full throttle 2600RPM. In general AUTO relationship with ATA below Full throttle in the E4N is closer match than could be achieved in the basic E4.
(For the record don't confuse this system with Kommand Gerate ... its not the same thing at all ! Educate the community call it AUTO)

BF109E1
Manual Prop pitch only
Max perf RPM is 2400
30min Setting 1.23/2300
5Min at 1.3/2400
WEP 1.4/2400 1 Min 30 sec cooling
Exceed 2500RPM at your peril
Max Coolant Temp 100 C Recommended 85-9C Max Oil Temperature 105C Recommended 85C
Vmax SL 1.3/2400 480 Kmh 1.4/2400 490Kmh
FTH 5800m
Ceiling 9200m (30,183ft)
Oil/Water Rad Min Drag setting 1/3 Open

BF109E3/E3B
Manual Prop pitch only
Max perf RPM is 2400
30min Setting 1.23/2300
5Min at 1.35/2400
WEP 1.45/2400 1 Min 30 sec cooling
Exceed 2500RPM at your peril
Max Coolant Temp 100C Recommended 85-90C
Max Oil Temperature 105C Recommended 85C
Vmax SL 1.35/2400 490Kmh 1.45/2400 510Kmh
FTH E3 6250m FTH E3B 5200
Ceiling E3 9400m (30,839ft) E3B 90050m (29,691ft)
Oil/Water Rad Min Drag setting 1/3 Open

BF109E4/E4B
Manual Prop Pitch will achieve slightly better perf.
AUTO will target 2400RPM at Full throttle
Max perf RPM is 2400
30min Setting 1.23/2300
5Min at 1.35/2400
WEP 1.45/2400 1 Min 30 sec cooling
Exceed 2500RPM at your Peril
Max Coolant Temp 100C Recommended 85-90C
Max Oil Temperature 105C Recommended 85C
Vmax SL 1.35/2400RPM 495Kmh 1.45/2400 512Kmh (Manual)
FTH E4 6259m FTH E4B5200m
Ceiling E4 9400m (30,839ft) Ceiling E4B 90050m (29,691ft)
Oil/Water Rad Min Drag setting 1/3 Open

BF109E4N
Manual Prop Pitch will achieve slightly better perf.
AUTO will target 2600RPM at Full throttle
Max perf RPM is 2600
30min Setting 1.25/2400
5Min at 1.35/2600
WEP Nil
Exceed 2600RPM at your Peril
Max Coolant Temp 100C Recommended 85-90C
Max Oil Temperature 105C Recommended 85C
Vmax SL 1.35/2400RPM 495Kmh 1.45/2400 512Kmh (Manual)
FTH 6100m
Ceiling 10,800m (35,433ft)
Oil/Water Rad Min Drag setting 1/3 Open

High altitude departures sometimes result in DB601 Engine stop. Since the DB601 is a "Mechanical" start it cant at present be restarted in flight. So if you do depart don't instinctively slam the throttle to idle. Bring it back smoothly to as low as you can and try to keep RPM just over 500. We are looking in to this.

BF110C-4
Manual Prop pitch only
Max perf RPM is 2400
30min setting 1.2/2300
5min Limit 1.3/2400
No WEP
Vmax SL 1.3/2400RPM 435KMH (OKL/RAE references)
FTH 5600m
Ceiling 9000m (29,527ft)
Max Coolant Temp 100C Recommended 85-90C
Max Oil Temperature 105C Recommended 85C
Oil/Water Rad Min Drag setting 1/3 Open

BF110C-7
Manual Prop pitch only
Max perf RPM is 2400
30min setting 1.2/2300
5min Limit 1.3/2400
No WEP
Vmax SL 1.3/2400RPM 435KMH (OKL/RAE references)
FTH 5600m
Ceiling 9000m (29,527ft)
Max Coolant Temp 100C Recommended 85-90C
Max Oil Temperature 105C Recommended 85C
Oil/Water Rad Min Drag setting 1/3 Open

[Future provision for WEP as detailed below
code in place but in active:
WEP 1.4/2400 1Min (No Clock time limit )
Vmax SL 1.4/2400RPM 445KMH (Estimate) ]
Also code present but not active to convert to DB601P.

JU88A1
1min 1.35/2400RPM
5Min Rating 1.25/2400 (non historical but provided for continuity)
30min 1.15/2300 (Orange Boost Orange RPM)
Continuous 1.10/2100RPM
FTH SC1 2500m SC2 3500m SC2 Manual shift at >2500m
Prop Straight out Variable Pitch (RC4)
Max coolant temp 95C Rec 85-90C
coolant RAD Min Drag at 1/4rd Open
Oil Temp max 105C Rec 75-80C
Oil Rad Min Drag at 1/2 Open
Vmax Sl Cont Rating 365Kmh
Vmax Sl 30min Rating 370Kmh
Vmax Sl 1 min Rating 420Kmh
Ceiling Full internal Fuel 4 x SC500 7300m (23,950ft)
Ceiling Post target 50% Internal fuel 8000m (26,246ft)

HEIII H-2 (Jumo)
1min 1.35/2400RPM
5Min Rating 1.25/2400 (non historical but provided for continuity)
30min 1.15/2300
Continuous 1.10/2100RPM
FTH SC1 2500m SC2 5200m SC2 Manual shift at >2500m
Prop Standard Variable Pitch (RC4)
Max coolant temp 95C Rec 85C
Coolant RAD Min Drag at 1/4 rad Open
Oil Temp max 105C Rec 75-80C
Oil Rad Min Drag at 1/3 Open
Vmax SL 1Min Rating 370Kmh
Vmax Sl 30min Rating 350Kmh
Ceiling Full internal Fuel With Bombs 8000 (26,246ft)
Ceiling Post target 50% Internal fuel 8800 (28,871ft)

HEIII P-2 (DB601)
5 min 1.3/2400RPM
30min 1.23/2300
Continuous 1.15/2200RPM
WEP 1 Min Clockwork timer
FTH 4500m (As per all DB601 Fully auto Supercharger)
Prop Standard Variable Pitch Prop (RC4)
Max coolant temp 100C Rec 85-90C
Coolant RAD Min Drag at 1/4 Open
Oil Temp max 105C Rec 75-80C
Oil Rad Min Drag at 1/3 Open
Vmax SL 5 Min Rating 360Kmh
Vmax Sl 30 Min Rating 375Kmh
Ceiling 75% internal Fuel With Bombs 7800m (25,590ft)
Ceiling Post target 75% Internal fuel 8500m (27,887ft)

If Keybinding for Bomb Bay doors is Toggle they can only be opened from the pilots seat. If set to separate Keys Open and Close they work fine from both positions.

JU87B-2
The Ju-87b has had a number of changes. Previously the lift profile was such that the aircraft could loop off level cruising speed, this has been changed and while the aircraft is still quite maneuverable, its behaviour is now more representative of an over 4500kg aircraft with a modest powerplant. The Ju-87b is not equipped with leading edge slats, so stall/spin behaviour can be quite violent when the aircraft is pushed past its limit.
Pilots should also note the dive limits for the aircraft, if it is dived at high speeds without the dive brakes, it can break up.
Cruising Speed at sea level was set according to the manual: 2100rpm/1.15ata boost gives 295kph.
Aircraft has a two stage supercharger, with the 2nd stage engaged manually by the pilot at 2500 meters with the handle on the upper left side of the cockpit dash. Pilots should NOT use the 2nd stage at high throttle settings below this altitude.
The aircraft is not equipped with a WEP power button, all power settings are controlled by the throttle.
Emergency Power, 1 minute limit: 2300rpm/1.35ata
5 minute Power: 2200rpm/1.25ata
Continuous Cruise or Climb: 2100rpm/1.15ata
Pilots will note there is not much speed to be gained by using higher than Cruise settings, the 5 minute and 1 minute settings are mostly useful in allowing combat maneuvers to be carried out. The aircraft will climb to altitude quite comfortably on the Cruise/Continuous Climb settings.
Propeller is Constant Speed, max. 2300rpm, set by the pilot.
Coolant and Oil
The Radiator opening is set by the pilot according the gauge on the upper right dash.
Radiator recommended temperatures:
Minimum: 38c
Normal: 70-85c
Overheat range: 90-95c
Oil Radiator recommended temperatures:
Minimum: 30c Normal: 75-85c Overheat 90-95c

( Single/Salvo bombs ... we tried but couldn't get Single drop working. Still trying)

Fiat G-50

The Fiat G-50 is one of the game's most difficult aircraft to modify to correct specifications. The CoD engine has designated that it shares the engine of the BR-20M, while in fact they were equipped with different types, the G-50 had the Fiat A-74/38 and the BR20M had the A-80. One was a 14 cylinder Radial, the other was an 18 cylinder. Both had different boost levels and maximum rpms.

The new version of the G-50's A74/38 engine has been modified to reflect its correct historical boost and rpm limits.

The Lift Profile of the G-50 has also been modified to reflect its wingloading and aerofoil design. It is capable of quite good level turn performance, and a good G-50 pilot can surprise an unwary Spitfire with its maneuverability. But it is a relatively slow aircraft compared to other fighters.

Max. Speed at Sea Level: 415kph

Aircraft has a single stage supercharger, with the Full throttle height being approx. 4000 meters. Performance falls off rapidly above this height. Most historical G-50 Squadriglia did not operate over 4000 meters.

The aircraft is equipped with a WEP switch, WEP power is 890mmHG, normal max. power is 790mmHG and continuous power is 650mmHG.

Emergency Power under 3000 meters, 3 minute limit: 2520rpm/890mmHG

Emergency Power over 3000 meters, 3 minute limit: 2520rpm/790mmHG

Climb 30 minute: 2400rpm/700mmHG Full open Air Louvres

Continuous Cruise: 2100rpm/650mmHG

The aircraft has a constant speed propellor.

Best climb speeds are 240kph initially, gradually reducing to 215/220kph. Pilots should not let speeds drop below 215kph.

The aircraft has an air-cooled Radial engine. Air Louvre shutters are opened or closed by the pilot to regulate the temperature of the engine cylinder heads. The cylinder heads can be monitored by a single gauge on the dash, a selector switch on the rigth of the dash determines which pair of cylinders has its temperature displayed on the gauge.

Cylinder Head recommended temperatures:
Minimum: 140c Normal: 200-240c Overheat 260c

The engine also has an Oil Radiator. A gauge on the dash displays oil temperature.

Oil Radiator recommended temperatures:
Minimum: 50-60c Normal: 70-90c Overheat: 95-100c

Engine Warmup

Pilots must warmup their Engine Cylinder heads and Oil temperatures to the minimum settings prior to takeoff or the engine will misfire and shake. Pilots should close their Air Louvre shutters and Oil Radiator till the engine has warmed up.

The engine is equipped with a carburetor which requires mixture settings to be adjusted according to altitude.

Recommended Mixture Settings
0m: 100%mix, 500m: 95% mix, 1000m: 90% mix, 1500m: 85% mix, 2000m: 80% mix, 2500m: 75% mix, 3000m: 70% mix, etc. At higher altitudes, mix may be more difficult.

Dives

When diving, pilots should partially close their Air Louvres and Oil Radiator to prevent the Cylinder Heads and oil from cooling too much otherwise misfiring and rough running may result.

--------------------

Fiat BR20M

The Fiat BR20M is one of the slowest bombers in the game, but it is a stable aircraft, with durable engines.
Max. Speed at 5000m: 432kph TAS at 2200rpm/730mmHG
Aircraft has a single stage supercharger, with the Full throttle height being approx. 4000 meters. Performance falls off rapidly above this height.
The aircraft is not equipped with WEP power, normal max. power is 730mmHG and cruise power is 700mmHG.
5 minute limit: 2200rpm/730mmHG
Climb and Combat 30 minute: 2100rpm/730mmHG
Continuous Cruise: 2100rpm/700mmHG
The aircraft has a constant speed propellor.
Best climb speeds are 250kph initially, gradually reducing to 220kph. Over 4000 meters, 2200rpm can be used in a continuous climb, with Air Louvre shutters and oil radiator opened slightly more.
The aircraft has air-cooled Radial engines. Air Louvre shutters are set by the pilot to regulate the temperature of the engine cylinder heads. The cylinder heads can be monitored by a single gauge on the dash, a selector switch determines which pair of cylinders has its temperature displayed on the gauge. Right side of the selector switch is for the right engine, left side for left engine.
Cylinder Head recommended temperatures:
Minimum: 140c Normal: 200-240c Overheat 260c
The aircraft engines also have Oil Radiators. Two gauges on the dash display oil temperature for the two engines.
Oil Radiator recommended temperatures:
Minimum: 50-60c Normal: 70-90c Overheat: 95-100c
Engine Warmup
Pilots must warmup their Engine Cylinder heads and Oil temperatures to the minimum settings prior to takeoff or the engine will misfire and shake. Pilots should close their Air Louver shutters and Oil Radiator till the engine has warmed up.
The engine is equipped with a carburettor which requires careful handling. Measured use of the throttle is best to prevent stumbles.

Robo
Posts: 3904
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:57 pm
Location: Slovakia

Re: Patch test thoughts?

Post by Robo » Sun Mar 17, 2013 12:03 pm

RAF AIRCRAFT
FTH may not agree with published figures. In most cases we came close to quoted rammed FTH as this provided closer to real performance levels. RAF ASI bug "the needle bounce in response to G" has been fixed. We found it near impossible to achieve documented performance at 2600RPM and elected to use 2700RPM as the base start point. Merlin Misfire bugs hopefully finally eliminated. Playtesters please keep note of any issues with this and let us know!

FIGHTER ENGINE TYPES

There are two major engine types used in RAF Fighters in this patch, the Merlin III and Merlin XII. These may have appeared to be the same in the standard game, in the revised game, they have been modelled to represent the very different types they were.

While nominally the Merlin III on 100 octane has a rating of 1310 hp, that is only achieved to a Full Throttle Height of 10,500 ft. By 16,250 ft, it is rated at 1030 hp, and from that altitude up, its performance is no better than an 87 octane fuelled Merlin III. In contrast, the Merlin XII has a lower maximum horsepower rating of 1175, but it sustains 1090 hp up to its FTH of 17,550ft. More importantly, with a newer design and more effective mixed glycol/water coolant system, the Merlin XII is capable of maintaining +9 boost and 2850 rpm for 30 minutes. The limit for the Merlin III using 100 octane is 2700rpm and +6 boost for 30 minutes.

The Merlin III was originally built to run on 87 octane Fuel. It was successfully converted to the use of 100 octane Fuel, but it is a much more fragile engine than the XII. Pilots should be cautious of using +12 boost and 3000 rpm except in all out high speed level flight. Use of these ratings in low speed maneuver or steep low speed climbs will cause rapid overheating. The two Spitfires which are powered by these two engines are quite different.

The Spitfire MkIA 100 Octane has a higher top speed at sea level, and its initial climb is better, but its performance rapidly drops off with altitude.

The Spitfire MkIIA is slower at sea level, but its climb is superior at all but low altitudes and its speed at altitude and its ceiling are much superior.

The Hurricane IA Rotol 100 Octane has all the advantages and disadvantages of the 100 Octane Spitfire, but is additionally slower and with an inferior climb. It does turn slightly better at lower altitudes.

Coolant Settings for Merlin Engines

All Merlin III equipped aircraft Coolant and Oil settings:
Glycol Maximum: 115-120C Glycol Recommended: 105-110C
Oil Maximum: 98C Oil Recommended: 90C

Merlin XII Coolant and Oil settings:
Glycol/Water Maximum: 115-120C Glycol/Water Recommended: 105-110C.
Oil Maximum: 105C Oil Recommended: 90C

Note: Engine damage due to coolant or oil overheat CAN occur at lower than MAX temperatures. BEWARE of going close to those limits.

Merlin III 100 Octane Aircraft Recommended Settings:

Level Cruise: (unlimited)
2700rpm/+4 boost 1/2 Rad

Continuous Climb: (30 minute rating)
2700rpm/+6.25 boost 1/2 Rad

Max Rate Climb/Combat: (5 minute rating)
2850rpm/+12 boost Full Open Rad

All Out Level Max Speed (5 minute rating)
3000rpm/+12 boost 1/2 Rad (with adjustments as necessary)

SPIT MKIA 100 Octane
Oil/Water Rad Min Drag setting 0.4 Open Continuous Rating 0.5

Continuous Climb rpms: 2700rpm to 25,000ft, 2750rpm 25,000-30,000ft, 2850/2900rpm to ceiling. Adjust Rad as necessary.

Hurricane IA Rotol 100 Octane
Oil/Water Rad Min Drag setting 0.35 Open Continuous Rating 0.55

Continuous Climb rpms: 2700rpm to 25,000ft, 2750rpm 25,000-30,000ft, 2850/2900rpm to ceiling. Adjust Rad as necessary.

Spitfire IIA 100 Octane Aircraft Recommended Settings:

Level Cruise: (unlimited)
2700rpm/+6.25 boost 1/2 Rad

Continuous Climb: (30 minute rating)
2850rpm/+9 boost 1/2 Rad (adjust as necessary after 15,000ft)

Max Rate Climb/Combat: (5 minute rating)
3000rpm/+12 boost Full Open Rad

All Out Level Max Speed (5 minute rating)
3000rpm/+12 boost 1/2 Rad (with adjustments as necessary)

Oil/Water Rad Min Drag setting 0.4 Open Continuous Rating 0.5

Merlin III 87 Octane Aircraft Recommended Settings:
Level Cruise: (unlimited)
2600rpm/+3 boost 1/2 Rad

Continuous Climb: (30 minute rating)
2600rpm/+6.25 boost

Max Rate Climb/Combat: (5 minute rating)
2850rpm/+6.25 boost Full Open Rad

All out Level Max Speed (5 minute rating)
3000rpm/+6.25 boost 1/2 Rad (with adjustments as necessary)

Spit MKIA 87 Octane
Oil/Water Rad Min Drag setting 0.4 open Continuous Rating 0.42 open

Continuous Climb Rpms: 2600rpm to 20,000ft, 2700rpm to 25,000ft, 2750rpm to ceiling

Hurricane I ROTOL 87 Octane
Oil/Water Rad Min Drag setting 0.35 open Continuous Rating 0.45 open

Continuous Climb Rpms: 2600rpm to 20,000ft, 2700rpm to 25,000ft, 2750rpm to ceiling

RAF Fighter Two Pitch Propeller Aircraft Types

Merlin II

Both the Spitfire I and Hurricane I DH5-20 are equipped with the Merlin II engine, which is an earlier version of the Merlin III. This engine is slightly less refined than the Merlin III and is more prone to overheat and damage when stressed. Pilots need to be aware of their limits.

Pilots will notice that in Coarse and Fine Pitch rpms rise as altitude is
gained, this is a natural result of how these aircraft's propeller settings
were tuned. Maximum rpms in Coarse Pitch were designed to arrive at
approximately Full Throttle Height to allow maximum speeds at those
altitudes to be attained. For this reason, rpms and performance at lower
levels are less than desirable. This is one of the compromises of a simple
two pitch propeller system. Fine pitch is only intended for use in takeoff and below 2,000ft, and only in climbs and slow speed maneuver at or below that altitude. Any attempt to use Fine Pitch at higher altitudes or in dives or in higher speed situations will result in the excessive engine and governor rpms and the destruction of the Pilot's engine.

Pitch change rates Coarse to Fine have been set to
documented historical speeds, Pitch change from Coarse to Fine or vice versa takes 10 seconds.

Pilots may use this slow pitch change mechanism in the same way as the real RAF pilots did, as a means to mimic a variable pitch system and gain a bit of acceleration when Coarse Pitch rpms are very low. When the prop is in Coarse Pitch, the pilot engages the lever to change to Fine Pitch. The rpms will then rise as the blade angles change giving more bite to the prop and a brief burst of acceleration. Before the rpms reach 3000 and the engine over-revs, the Pilot should change the lever position back to Coarse Pitch, so that the Prop pitch reverses, and the engine goes back to lower RPM's. This technique is only recommended for use between 0- 10,000ft, or when at altitudes over 20,000ft.

Use of +12 boost in Hurricane I DH5-20, and Spitfire Mk I:

Fine Pitch:

+12 boost is not recommended for use with a Fine Pitch Prop setting. Use of +12 boost in Fine Pitch will cause a rise in
rpm and without extreme care, will result in engine destruction.

Coarse Pitch:

+12 can be used with Coarse pitch at all altitudes where it is effective,
but Pilots need to be aware the use of it will cause a rise in rpms and
eventual overheating and they need to monitor their oil temperature and
Glycol temperatures very closely. This is particularly the case when using
+12 boost over the altitude of 10,000 ft. Full open Radiator is recommmended over 10,000ft when using +12 boost.

Spitfire I

Pitch Settings

Fine Pitch:

Fine Pitch should be used only for takeoff, landing, only at speeds 180mph
or under, and generally only under 2000 ft altitudes. Any attempt to use Fine Pitch
over 2000 ft may result in quick overheat or damage to the engine from too
high rpms. Full Open Radiator settings MUST be used any time Fine Pitch is
selected.

Coarse Pitch:

Coarse Pitch is used for climbing and general combat and diving. Pilots may
need to reduce boost (thus rpm) in situations where dive speed could cause
excessive rpms, or even in level flight.


Takeoff procedure:

Prop in Fine Pitch, radiator Full Open

Aircraft may takeoff successfully without flaps, however, a long runway is
required, and no attempt to lift the aircraft off early must be made, it
should fly off the ground naturally. Flaps may be deployed if pilots wish
to shorten their takeoff distance, however they should beware the nose down
attitude which will result after tail comes up, this must be controlled or
the aircraft's propeller blades will contact the ground.

After takeoff, aircraft should be leveled out, undercarriage and flaps
raised before any turns attempted. Once the aircraft reaches 180 mph,
Coarse Pitch can be selected.

Continuous Climb Settings

Two Pitch Spitfires have higher recommended climb speeds than constant speed
versions.

Coarse Pitch/+6.25 boost/185mph

Initially radiator can be set to 1/2 open, however, once past 10,000ft
pilots need to monitor their water temperatures closely. Once radiator
temperatures reach 100 degrees, radiator should be opened to Full.

Continuous Cruise

Coarse Pitch. Not to exceed +3 boost OR 2700 rpm
1/2 Rad

Diving

Coarse Pitch. Rpms in dives may not exceed 3200 rpms and should not exceed
3000 rpms for more than 30 seconds.

Hurricane I DH5-20

Pitch Settings

Fine Pitch:

Fine Pitch should be used only for takeoff, landing, only at speeds 170mph
or under, and only under 2000 ft altitudes. Any attempt to use Fine Pitch
over 2000 ft, in high speed situations or dives may result in quick overheat or damage to the engine from too
high rpms.

Coarse Pitch:

Coarse Pitch is used for climbing over 2000 ft and general combat and diving. Pilots may
need to reduce boost (thus rpm) in situations where dive speed could cause
excessive rpms, or even in level flight.


Takeoff procedure:

Prop in Fine Pitch, radiator Full Open

Aircraft may takeoff successfully without flaps, however, a long runway is
required, and no attempt to lift the aircraft off early must be made, it
should fly off the ground naturally. Flaps may be deployed if pilots wish
to shorten their takeoff distance, however they should beware the nose down
attitude which will result after tail comes up, this must be controlled or
the aircraft's propeller blades will contact the ground.

After takeoff, aircraft should be leveled out, undercarriage and flaps
raised before any turns attempted. Once the aircraft reaches 170 mph,
Coarse Pitch can be selected.

Continuous Climb Settings

Two Pitch Hurricanes have higher recommended climb speeds than constant
speed versions.

Coarse Pitch/+6.25 boost/175mph

Initially radiator can be set to 1/2 open, however, once past 10,000ft
pilots need to monitor their water temperatures closely. Once radiator
temperatures reach 100 degrees, radiator should be opened to Full.

Continuous Cruise

Coarse Pitch. Not to exceed +3 boost OR 2700 rpm
1/2 Rad

Diving

Coarse Pitch. Rpms in dives may not exceed 3200 rpms and should not exceed
3000 rpms for more than 30 seconds.

BLENHEIM MKIV
Blenheim 2 Pitch (and most 2 pitch) setups in CLOD has been way off the mark.
Engine adjustments made to achieve Documented RPM in Coarse at FTH and Vmax. This is how these props were set up IRL.
Clb RPM in coarse is about 70-100rpm higher than documented. More tweeking to verify vmax and ROC figures.
Now we have 2 Pitch RPM V AL V TAS pretty much sorted out we will continue to refine it further.

RPM FIGS
Static +5/Full fine now gives 2250 RPM
Static +9/Boost Cut out now gives 2500RPM
FTH+5/COARSE gives 2420 RPM 208MPH IAS (RAE 212MPH IAS)
FTH+5/FINE gives 2800 RPM
S/L Vmax +5/COARSE gives 2300RPM 225MPH (RAE 225MPH IAS)
S/L Vmax +5/FINE gives 2750 RPM Little change in speed
S/L Vmax +9/COARSE gives 2500RPM Speed 248 MPH (RAE 247MPH IAS)
S/L Vmax +9/FINE gives 2800 RPM
Min CHT 100C, Nominal CHT 190C Max CHT 235C
Pitch Blade Angle rate reduced to 2 Deg sec (from 10deg sec) to reflect actual documented values.
Rates of Climb Spec Figs to to 12,500ft a little quick above that.
Operating Technique:
After start Cowl Flaps closed, Warm till 100C Cylinder Head Temp (CHT) then Cowl Flaps full open.
Take off Full fine, Cowl Flaps 1/4 open*, after Gear and Flap retraction select Coarse. Coarse for Climb Cruise combat and descent. On Final approach select Fine pitch.
Boost Cutout (3Min Limit). Essentially there to cater for heavy weight Take off and was not intended for general in flight use. Normal technique is to Select Boost Cutout on lining up on the runway. After Take Off De select Boost Cut Out once Gear and flap is retracted, then select Coarse Pitch.
* Historically a take off without boost cut Out was performed with Cowl Flaps closed, With Boost cutout at +9 Cowl Flaps 1/4 open. At present in CLOD 1/4 Open is required for both +9 or +5 take offs.

DH82 Tiger Moth
Engine now tweaked so in cockpit placards and real world values are now in agreeance
Real World RPM can be used to achieve real World performance , from WWII RAAF pilots notes.
Max RPM 2350
5 Min Rating 2350 RPM
30min Rating 2100 RPM
There is no cooling controls as such in the DH82. RPM controls heat generation. Stay inside the limits and you will be okay.
Min Oil Press 35 Lb sq in
Normal oil Pressure 42lb sq in
Crz RPM 1950 gives 77mph
Crz RPM 2100 gives 87mph
Clb 2100 RPM 66mph
Note: This aircraft manufactured in Bankstown NSW Australia.

Bounder
Posts: 455
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:03 pm
Location: Notts UK

Re: Patch test thoughts?

Post by Bounder » Sun Mar 17, 2013 1:22 pm

Great info Robo, thanks for posting it here for us.

Cockpit stuff makes sense now. Also, I nearly posted stuff about the Spit 1 as initially I kept blowing the engine flying it like we used to - you can only use full fine pitch for a couple of seconds at full throttle before it over revs... then I remembered the stuff about the bicycle pump and so I got pumping away late last night and it worked great. You pretty much have to wank the Spit 1 off when flying it now :oops: :lol:
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