TFS Leadership Slagging (split from Tobruk Update)

[Jackman]

I also wouldn't hold it against most of the TFS group as it is quite obviously one mans mission.

Gonna +1 this as well. I don't have any ill will towards TFS in general. I do want them to succeed, I want their hard work to pay off. The issue sits up top, and his name is Buzzsaw.

I think it's a dreadful, terrible shame that Larry has felt the need to quit ACG over all of this. He's good people, a fucking artist, and a pillar of ACG if you ask me. I can only hope he reconsiders it, we'd be at a genuine loss without him.

100% in agreement a big +1 +++

[Broadsword]

True dat, as the kids are saying these days

[Shadepiece]

Well put, Luft.

[Jaydog]

Sometimes less is more. It isn't always necessary to speak your mind no matter what side you are on or what you believe. Sometimes it is best to just keep scrolling or bite your tongue. Too many losses of good peeps in ACG because people get caught up in feelings. Don't get caught up in feelings!

smh

[Von Archie]

Sorry Jaydog I disagree. It's important that everyone makes their feelings perfectly known in this sort of situation. I sincerely hope Larry reconsiders, as none of this is directed towards normal TFS members.

[Boyezee]

Yes I agree with Archie, I think Buzzsaw is a bully who abused his position to try and intimidate members of the community, for example that atrocious PM he sent OD which was shocking IMO.

Whilst tempers did flare and I'm sure when the dust has settled we will all look back and reflect on our reactions I'm pleased that people refused to take his shit and stood up to him, he should not be allowed to get away with behaviour like that unchallenged.

I also really hope Larry re-considers as I have a lot of respect for him as a top bloke and as somebody that does a lot of work for ACG and TFS, it would be a shame to lose a key member to all of this.

[Dickie]

I hope you will all join me in fighting for Larry as hard as we've fought against bullying.

[aperson]

"I hope you will all join me in fighting for Larry as hard as we've fought against bullying."
which is like stuff all lol
you all gang up against buzzsaw, who admittedly probably could hav dun his public relations n a better manner, but then constantly lambast him and then say you fight against bullying? wow i don't think i've ever seen a more hypocritical outlook in my whole life
you also constantly bash atag, whos largest crime is to perhaps provide a server which consistently gets higher numbers of the general public than yours. what you offer is good but bashing others for their servers isn't going to endear yourself to other simmers and hsnt done so for me, as a long time flier who came to clod from xplane and slighty prefers it to dcs and box although i fly all those sims happily. and yes this account is under an assumed name as you might hve guesed.
maybe its time you guys stopped calling atag and co an echo chamber and looked at this from an outsiders perspective, because despite your 'open forum' there is a very predominant anti-TF sentiment among the few members who put their profanity laced 'opinions' out there. my bet is that the majority of guys here are staying silent and not saying something different to what their 'glorious leader' believes just because theyll be ripped apart publicly. in that way the moderation of other forums is perhaps superior to yours in which people are actually civil to eachother.
I hope youll excuse me for my little rant but i think an outsiders perspectibe would do you some good. S all

[Broadsword]

Always good to see an outsiders point of view Apeson. Thanks for coming to talk.

The thing about bullying is that it's importance kind of depends on the power you wield. You talk about our 'glorious leader' as though he can actually make our lives hell for disagreeing with him, but he either can't or won't. If he says the sky is green and I say it isn't, the worst he'll ever do is keep arguing that it's green. He won't ban me, or silence me, or round up the lads to beat me with sticks. He might even listen, learn from his mistake, and move on. Of course, he's a decent debater, who argues with passion and doesn't tend to start arguments about the colour of the sky unless he's very, very sure of his facts, so the discussion itself might get a little difficult for me, and he might even persuade a bunch of the lads to agree with him, but he won't order or threaten people into agreeing with him so the winner of the argument will probably be whoever is right. Crucially, since he won't silence me or ban me, there's a pretty good chance that we will either come to an agreement on the colour of the sky, or at least agree to disagree. Either way we'll likely still be friends at the end of it all, because even if he doesn't show respect for my view on the colour of the sky, he respects my right to disagree with him. If I get humiliated in such a discussion, chances are it's not because our glorious leader (or whatever name he hides behind) has convinced the villagers to come after me with pitchforks and flaming torches, but because I'm an idiot who can't back up what he's saying. If I'm right, and I'm able to show my reasoning like an adult, chances are I come out of it smelling of roses.

Buzznuts on the other hand wields a lot of power. So much power that he can summarily ban people not just from the ATAG forums but from the IL-2 forums as well. And he doesn't wait until he's sure of his facts - he thinks a hunch is reason enough. He might not throw as many profanities around but he's sure happy to call people a thief or a hacker (or otherwise impugn their morals for doing exactly what he's done. Given the choice, I'd rather be called a cockslap or an arsemonger than a thief, and anyone who can't see that is far too hung up on 'profanity' and not paying enough attention to what's really insulting in life). He threatens legal action, removes people's right to reply, and makes it perfectly obvious that anyone who stands up and says, "erm, hang on, that seems a bit off," will suffer the same treatment.

That is what bullying looks like, and that is why I'll take ACG's freedom, hotbed of childish profanity though it may be, over Buzzcock's cult of fear.

[Boyezee]

you all gang up against buzzsaw, who admittedly probably could hav dun his public relations n a better manner

Slight understatement yes

you also constantly bash atag, whos largest crime is to perhaps provide a server which consistently gets higher numbers of the general public than yours.

Well this all comes down to individual experience and views, for me their largest 'crime' (if one wants to put it that way) is nothing to do with their server which is popular and when I first started flying Cliffs I used to enjoy it myself, but the behaviour that I have experienced first hand from a few of their members who have gone out of their way to stir trouble up by joining our TS and trying to provoke us, they then use these situations to besmirch us to the community whilst acting innocent and feigning the moral high ground, I have seen some real snide passive aggressive behaviour from some of their members which has given me the view I hold now, but I know it isn't all ATAG members just like a few ACG members do not represent everybody in our group.

maybe its time you guys stopped calling atag and co an echo chamber and looked at this from an outsiders perspective, because despite your 'open forum' there is a very predominant anti-TF sentiment among the few members who put their profanity laced 'opinions' out there. my bet is that the majority of guys here are staying silent and not saying something different to what their 'glorious leader' believes just because theyll be ripped apart publicly. in that way the moderation of other forums is perhaps superior to yours in which people are actually civil to eachother.
I hope youll excuse me for my little rant but i think an outsiders perspectibe would do you some good. S all

I honestly really hope that we don't have members that are staying silent for that reason, but maybe your are right, maybe you are not. I suspect that when we all get together on Sunday we will chat about it, anybody here can speak their mind and I honestly don't think they will get ripped apart for it but that is just how I see it.

I do get your point about forums with moderation being more civil to each other but I have always felt it was a 'faux' civility and isn't actually real, you just end up with posts not really saying a lot and everybody agreeing, personally I learn more and can connect with people better if they are honest and speak their mind rather than everybody just agreeing and not really posting anything of any interest - sure we may argue from time to time but what group with 180-ish people from different cultures and backgrounds are going to agree all the time?

Smokejumper is a great example, we had loads of arguements when he joined and I thought he was a dick, but over time I have come to respect his views and like him, he is one of us now warts and all, he is an interesting bloke and that adds something to the group.

Dickie has always likened our forum to like being in a pub chatting, you can speak your mind, have a laugh and the guy next to you might call you a cunt but it's more about direct language between adults rather than for abuse purposes. And if someone does over step the line then rather than just being deleted, banned and ignored the other members will challenge them and often it leads to a better understanding in the future.

And finally of course your post won't be deleted here, if I had posted like you have here on ATAG it would have been deleted and I would have been banned which would achieve nothing but to keep their 'faux' reality going, it's just a shame you used an assumed name but that's your prerogative mate

**EDIT** As usual Broadsword explains everything better than me